Steve Fishman was 19 when he hitchhiked with a serial killer.
The aspiring reporter needed to drive to Connecticut, where he was interning at his hometown newspaper, the Norwich Bulletin, and was staying with a friend in Boston.
It was the fall of 1975, and hitchhiking was common at the time, Fishman explained.
Lone survivor of I-70 serial killer pretended to be dead to save his life: ‘Today was not the day I should have been killed’
A mugshot of Robert Frederick Carr III, the Virginia-born serial killer who led police to the discovery of four bodies in three states. (Bettman Archive/Getty Images)
“If you don’t have a car, you can just stick out your thumb,” he told Fox News Digital. “I’ve had some great experiences hitchhiking and some bad ones that I don’t want to repeat, but I just didn’t feel like I should give up the habit for any reason.”
Fishman is now speaking out about his experiences on The Binge’s new true crime documentary podcast. “Smokescreen: My Friend the Serial Killer”
“This is a story that has haunted me for decades,” the presenter admitted. “It’s about my past, a past I’ve been reluctant to dig up. And it’s a story full of horror.”
Steve Fishman is the host of the true crime podcast “Smoke Screen: My Friend, the Serial Killer.” (Courtesy of Steve Fishman)
Fishman recalled feeling relieved when a green Buick sedan slowed to a halt, with a man at least 10 years older than her with pale red hair in the driver’s seat.
“Get in,” the driver ordered in a Southern accent.
Fishman jumped into the passenger seat, eager to get home.
Follow the FOX True Crime Team on X
When I was a baby, my name was “Red.” (Courtesy of Steve Fishman)
“This guy, ‘Red,’ he called, was very nice and easy to talk to,” Fishman said. “He was from Norwich and offered to show me shortcuts. He took me down smaller roads, which saved me time.”
Fishman, desperate for a promotion at the newspaper, began questioning Red: he was looking for a fresh story.
Red reveals that he just got out of prison.
“Red” told Steve Fishman he had just gotten out of prison. (Bettman Archive/Getty Images)
“My first thought was, ‘This is an interesting story. This is about a guy who left a maximum security prison and reintegrated into society. This would be a great story for readers,'” Fishman said. “For some reason, I never thought of this guy as a dangerous criminal. I didn’t even ask him what he’d been in prison for. But he was happy to share his story with me, and I was really pleased.”
Redd, who said he was on parole, gave Fishman his phone number and told the rookie reporter he needed to check with his superiors before saying anything more.
When Fishman arrived at his destination, the car door was difficult to open, and Redd ignored it, saying, “I have to fix that.” Fishman said he got out himself with the help of an open window.
Sign up to receive our True Crime Newsletter
In the podcast, Steve Fishman spoke with Robert F. Carr’s daughter, Donna. (Courtesy of Steve Fishman)
Meanwhile, Fishman was confident that he had an important story for his paper, so he didn’t hesitate to call Red’s boss.
“He couldn’t believe I’d called to write a story about this guy,” Fishman said. “He said, ‘Do you know what he did?’ And then I realized I hadn’t asked him. I was a pretty inexperienced reporter at the time. And my boss said, ‘You don’t want to know, and we’re not going to write a story about him.'”
Fishman was disappointed, feeling that he had missed a great opportunity. Red’s true identity was not discovered until several months later.
Detective David Simmons, who arrested Robert F. Carr, was quoted as saying, “In my 33-year law enforcement career, Carr is the most dangerous child sexual predator and murderer I have ever investigated.” (Bettman Archive/Getty Images)
“I was in the editing room and all of a sudden the bell rang,” Fishman explained, “which meant we had a news story of national importance. It turned out to be about a local man who had confessed to a series of rapes and murders up and down the East Coast. He also lived in Norwich. I saw a photo of this man and knew who he was. It was Red. Then I found out he’d taken all of his victims.”
“At that point I was like, ‘Oh my God, I was so close,'” Fishman added.
Red was Virginia-born Robert Frederick Carr III, a serial killer who preyed on young hitchhikers. Three years earlier, he had raped and strangled two 11-year-old boys, Todd Payton and Mark Wilson, and a 16-year-old girl, Tammy Ruth Huntley, in the Miami area. Carr was on parole from a Connecticut prison sentence for rape when he gave Fishman a ride.
Get real-time updates directly True Crime Hub
Robert F. Carr killed his fourth victim, 21-year-old Rhonda Holloway, shortly after meeting Steve Fishman. (Bettman Archive/Getty Images)
Shortly after meeting Fishman, Carr murdered a fourth victim, 21-year-old Rhonda Holloway, and buried her body in Connecticut.
At the time Fishman was discovered, Carr had been arrested in Miami for the attempted rape of a hitchhiker. Carr later confessed to detectives that he had kidnapped and raped more than a dozen women. He said he murdered four of his victims.
For years, Fishman wondered why he was spared.
James Parish Sheriff Gordon Martin looks at the shallow grave where the body of 11-year-old Todd Payton of Miami was buried. The deputy was guided to the cemetery by Robert Frederick Carr III of Norwich, Connecticut, who led deputies to two other graves where they found the bodies of a 16-year-old girl and an 11-year-old boy. (Bettman Archive/Getty Images)
“I wasn’t too far outside of his target group,” Fishman explained. “He was always targeting somebody, and I found out later that he was always targeting hitchhikers. I wasn’t a big guy at my age, and I didn’t have a beard, but I was athletic and I was a journalist, so I was perceived as a bit of an aggressive guy, which maybe made me less than worthy of being targeted.”
Fishman had questions, so he called the number Carr had given him a few months earlier.
“He was in prison in Florida, and his wife picked up the phone,” Fishman said. “I became close with his wife, and she was still in contact with him. She contacted me, and then he started calling the newspaper every day. I was finally able to write the story. We picked up where we left off.”
‘Casanova murder’ survivor reveals why she wanted her killer to fall in love: ‘Hell began’
Robert F. Carr, left, with Connecticut State Trooper Harry Bordsen at the Dade County Jail. Carr has previously refused to talk about the murder of Rhonda Holloway. (Bettman Archive/Getty Images)
Carr invited Fishman to visit.
“Looking back, it was odd how comfortable we became so quickly,” Fishman said. “He claimed to remember me. We developed a kind of relationship. He called me every day, and I followed up on any leads he gave me, and he became a celebrity in the newsroom. How often does a serial killer call into the newsroom of a small newspaper? But it was strange. This man was describing in great detail the murders of his two best friends, both 11 years old. We were talking as if we’d met at a local cafe, sharing the news of the day.”
“He also came to me with a purpose,” Fishman continued. “He wanted to be in control. He wanted to drive the narrative. He made the case to me that if he had received proper treatment when he was first incarcerated, he would not have continued his rape and murder spree.”
Robert F. Carr was serving a life sentence in Florida. (Florida Department of Corrections)
Fishman eventually flew to see Carr in prison in Florida, where he still wanted to know why Carr had survived.
“The question, ‘Why not me?’ was weirdly awkward,” Fishman says, “as if I felt left out. I said, ‘Why didn’t you kill me?’ He just shrugged. It was a sign that, at 19 years old at the time, he wasn’t going to mess with someone he couldn’t control.”
Fishman said he decided to write about this case because he wanted to know why the state of Connecticut didn’t step in, realize he was a “mentally ill man” and stop his criminal conduct.
Ted Bundy’s ex-girlfriend recalls terrifying encounter with serial killer: ‘He just laughed’
Reporter Steve Fishman wanted to know if any of Robert F. Carr’s crimes could have been prevented. (Courtesy of Steve Fishman)
As Fishman listened to the recording of his conversation with Carr, one thing became clear.
“This man was so intent on avoiding responsibility for the horrific acts he committed,” Fishman said. “He blamed everything from the Connecticut prison system to his upbringing. He blamed everything in his life except for the fact that he was a monster.”
“Carr repeatedly said, ‘I had to kill him’ or ‘I had to kill her,'” Fishman continued. “His logic was that in order to avoid getting caught, he had to kill the only witness to his crime. It was cold-blooded and cruel. The mind of a serial killer is terrifying.”
“Smokescreen: My Friend, a Serial Killer” is available to stream now. (Binge)
Carr died in 2007 at the age of 63. He was serving a life sentence.
Fishman said he wanted to “get inside the mind of a monster” years later. He wanted to understand whether any of Carr’s brutal crimes could have been prevented. Fishman said the podcast helped him confront his past and see what could have happened to him.
Click here to get the FOX News app
“I wanted to know what to do about serial killers,” he said. “Are these people worth our tax dollars, are they worth the effort we put into rehabilitating them? What should happen to someone who victimizes children and kills children? As a father, I had to answer that question for myself.”
