Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. testified before a Senate panel regarding waste within his department on Tuesday, leading to some tense exchanges with Democrats.
During the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, and Related Agencies hearing, Kennedy emphasized that “this agency has a budget comparable to that of the sixth largest nation in the world.”
Here are some notable moments from the hearing.
1. ‘Destruction of the Health of the American People’
Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., who is the vice chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee, posed numerous questions about perceived cuts to the department since the second Trump administration began, criticizing Kennedy for eliminating jobs within the department.
“What you are doing right now is enacting your own budget that Congress has not approved, by cutting essential funding across the board,” Murray told him.
During his responses, Kennedy often faced interruptions from Murray. For example, when she asked who decided to withhold funding for child care and development block grants, Kennedy started to respond: “In 2021, at the beginning of his administration, President Biden …”
“I’m not interested,” Murray interjected.
Kennedy retorted, “You made an accusation; I’m going to answer it.”
Then, he mentioned, “On May 28, he [President Biden] submitted his budget. Our budget, we are a new administration …” but was interrupted again by Murray, who stated, “I have just two minutes left.”
To this, Kennedy noted, “You have presided over the decline of the health of the American people for over 32 years. Our citizens are among the least healthy in the world because you have not done your job.”
Murray visibly reacted with frustration. “Mr. Secretary, seriously? I am here to ask you …” she said, but he continued answering.
“What have you done about the epidemic of chronic disease?” Kennedy pressed further.
Murray repeated, “Seriously, seriously.”
She highlighted that Kennedy had recently fired thousands of National Institutes of Health staff and terminated over 1,600 NIH grants.
“Whose decision was it to terminate these NIH grants?” she pressed again.
Kennedy countered, “Senator, I don’t trust your information. You claimed days ago that we cut a clinical trial in your state, but that turned out to be completely untrue.”
Murray responded that she had only received a reply from his staff 45 minutes prior to their conversation.
Kennedy replied, “We have emails from two weeks ago that show your statements weren’t accurate.”
Murray said, “You came here to argue with me.”
2. ‘Only in Washington Would That Be Called Cuts’
Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., expressed concerns that over 10 million individuals could lose access to Medicaid due to a proposed spending bill from the House, typically referred to as “the big, beautiful bill.”
“The implications of millions missing out on Medicaid are that many more will end up in emergency rooms,” Reed stated.
Kennedy responded, “First of all, we haven’t cut anything. Only in Washington would that be called cuts.”
He stated that proposed reductions were merely a slowdown in the rate of growth over the next five years aimed at eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse.
Kennedy highlighted illegal dual enrollment in Medicaid, where 1 million people are reportedly collecting benefits in two states simultaneously, calling it theft.
He also noted that after the Trump administration halted Medicaid payments to illegal immigrants, California’s Governor Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, swiftly followed suit by discontinuing such funding.
3. John and Bobby Kennedy Chat
Interestingly, Sen. John Kennedy, R-La., who is not related but shares a name with former President John F. Kennedy and is the uncle of Secretary Kennedy, participated in the Appropriations Subcommittee as well.
The Louisiana senator defended the reductions at HHS, asking, “How many employees were at HHS when you took over?”
Kennedy responded that the department had 82,000 employees under the Biden administration, a number that has now declined to 62,000.
“That’s about where it stood in 2019 before COVID,” he said, and questioned whether downsizing was unprecedented in America.
Kennedy added, “I think both private and public institutions have been downsizing.”
The senator referenced workforce reductions at major companies like Microsoft and Meta, which Kennedy felt wouldn’t result in their downfall.
4. ‘No Room to Cut NIH Research, Right?’
Throughout the hearing, Democrats voiced their opposition to funding cuts for the NIH.
Sen. Markwayne Mullin, R-Okla., pointed out that the top four recipients of NIH grants received a total of $2.8 billion, with nearly $1.7 billion allocated to indirect expenses not related to research.
“Harvard received $488 million, with 69% going to indirect costs—meaning very little reached actual research,” Mullin observed, providing similar statistics for Yale, John Hopkins University, and the University of California, San Francisco.
Mullin inquired, “I’m sure there’s no room to cut NIH research, right?”
Kennedy remarked that the total indirect expenses from all NIH grants amounted to a staggering $9 billion.
“That’s $9 billion that didn’t go to research,” he stated. “We have no idea where it ended up.”
The secretary concluded by noting that the private universities with large endowments often accumulated inflated figures.
