Shapiro and Maher Clash Over Morality and Religion
On “Real Time with Bill Maher: Overtime,” Ben Shapiro and Bill Maher engaged in a lively debate about morals and the Bible, catching the audience in Los Angeles off guard with some unexpected exchanges. Maher, known for his outspoken atheism and his documentary “Religious,” stated that the Bible is filled with “nonsense” and “wickedness.” He posed a provocative question: if God wrote a book, why would it contain elements people disagree with? This sparked laughter among the audience as he argued, “It must be perfect if it’s written by someone divine, but if not, it’s just full of human flaws.”
Shapiro was on the show to discuss his new book, “The Lions and the Scavengers,” which explores the idea that society consists of two opposing personality types—those who build and those who tear down. In the course of the conversation, Maher asked Shapiro about a potential comparison to Friedrich Nietzsche, a philosopher known for critiquing religious beliefs.
Shapiro defended himself, saying Nietzsche’s comments about religions promoting weakness, particularly about Judaism and Christianity, weren’t fair. He suggested that those who follow the Bible should believe that their faith leads to better outcomes in life.
As the discussion progressed, Maher interrupted, emphasizing that their agreement on moral issues doesn’t necessarily come from the Bible. Shapiro, however, countered by highlighting their shared cultural background and the long-standing biblical influence on Western morality. “I mean, come on, we probably grew up quite close to each other in societies steeped in biblical history,” he said. “You might think you have constructed your own moral compass, but in a way, it’s rooted in those same traditions.”
Shapiro also quoted a line from Deuteronomy, asserting its importance in Jewish belief, while Maher took the opportunity to critique religious beliefs further. Shapiro argued that the Bible’s moral teachings are vital not just to believers like himself, but even to skeptics like Maher. “We might agree on morality at, say, 87% level,” he said, to which Maher replied, “Morality… but not from the Bible.”
In a back-and-forth, Shapiro pushed back, noting that influential figures like Thomas Jefferson even edited the Bible to focus on moral teachings, showcasing how deeply intertwined morality and the scriptures are.
Finally, when Maher questioned the relevance of the Bible in today’s world, Shapiro offered a metaphor that hinted at the importance of maintaining moral roots for survival, saying, “The mutilated flower dies.” This remark encapsulated his belief that society must uphold its moral foundations to endure and thrive.
